I do not doubt that alien civilisations could exist and from a moral or metaphysical standpoint I do not feel threatened by the possibility. I only bring that up because some people would object to the possibility on theological grounds (see Galileo and the heliocentric galaxy). So - my mind is open so to speak.
That said, I still remain skeptical when it comes to UFO's and the handful of claims made by a handful of people. Why is it that any video of these events is always grainy? Why were the only believable stories in that documentary the ones that had the studio supplied reproduced videos playing in the background? How can a HUGE alien craft the size of several football fields do a flyby in Phoenix AZ and only a handful of people see it? Why is it that of the hundreds of thousands of flights that happen every day, there are only a relative few reports from pilots of UFO sightings? Why, and perhaps the more important question, how would world governments keep this information under wraps?
Those are just a few of the questions I have. For me it really boils down to numbers and probability. Which is more probable - UFO's exist and despite our best efforts, modern technology, information and our ability to disseminate it, only a miniscule fraction of the earth's past and present population has run into them? OR - The handful of people that have "seen" them (or heaven forbid - been probed by them) are crazy, delusional, or just plain mistaken? For me, it's a pretty quick selection.
This line of reasoning could take you in a whole lot of other directions with respect to the existence of other 'unseen' things - but you've been down that road already. If you want to try going there again, I'm up for it.
I find some of the parallels that are being drawn here (or around a campfire) problematic. the parallel I am talking about is "If you believe in an unseen God, how can you deny an unseen alien"? or derivations of that question. The false criticism and false choice seems to be (to use a secular example) that if I can prove the existance of Santa, how can you deny the existance of the tooth fairy?
In actuality, there is a universe (pun intended) between "proving" the existance of UFO's and "proving" the existance of a Creative Force or God. About the only thing the two arguments have in common is that there is evidence in support of believing that both exist and the weight of that evidence is disputed. That leaves a LOT of ground in between.
Without rehashing something not all of us are eager to get into, there is a long list of reasons and evidence that supports a Divine or Supernatural cause for our existance, not the least of which is the existance and nature of the universe itself. The fact that some will find the long list insufficient does not change the fact that it is by far more substantial than the evidence insupport of alien life, which boils down to 1)its possible and 2) some people think its true based on what they have seen.
Alien existance is fun to speculate on and could very well be true but aliens are not necessaary to explain questions of our origin or the meaning of our lives etc in sense God or No God respond to those questions.
Another unfair and unconvincing question might be, if you believe in aliens, why don't you believe in God?
I am not sure what you mean about a straw man comment. I have not unfairly represented the evidence for aliens, simply to make it easier to refute. Unless someone has "personal experience" the only evidence that exists for aliens is that a) alien life is not impossible (I agree with that) and b) many second and third hand accounts, supported by video, of what witnesses purport to be alien activity. (I don’t have a way to gauge that credibility and even if I believe them, there are perhaps other possibilities)
If you want a very basic answer to your question "Do I believe?", I would say I am agnostic, not athiest, on the alien question. Grin.
But as you know, I find the rest of the discussion flowing from UFO talk to be more interesting. i.e the nature of belief, the value of "evidence", what counts as evidence, what issues "things" not addressed directly in the Bible might raise for a believer, why should the possibiltiy of aliens be disconcerting to a believer? Etc. etc. And that is why my comment was more generally about the rest of the conversations that UFO talks have prompted.
Regarding my huge lure (grin), who is baiting whom? There are perhaps a couple dozen people who read and enjoy this blog regularly. Of those only 5 or 6 are likely to comment. You know who they are and they know who you are. Given that, what response, exactly, were you expecting?
This UFO question is one you posed, not I. I am simply responding to your question in light of recent at-the-ranch and other conversations and asking a rhetorical follow-up question of my own.
I am not the one throwing dynamite in the water hoping to catch a fish. . . .so to speak.
I'm in - I'll try to watch the video this weekend.
ReplyDeleteMaybe this will kickstart the ol' blogs again.
interesting vid.
ReplyDeleteWho knew Jimmy Carter was abducted by aliens and probed?
still many questions unanswered, such as: what did Mark and I see last Feb. that apparently 'no one else' saw.......impossible!
you should start to compile your own library of sitings/visits of people you know.
I saw it too, putz!
ReplyDeleteTan, in Ray's defense, you wrote it off to something of earthly origin. According to you, you saw five balloons on fire, or something to that effect.
ReplyDeleteWatched the video yesterday - cool video.
ReplyDeleteStill not completely convinced though.
I do not doubt that alien civilisations could exist and from a moral or metaphysical standpoint I do not feel threatened by the possibility. I only bring that up because some people would object to the possibility on theological grounds (see Galileo and the heliocentric galaxy). So - my mind is open so to speak.
That said, I still remain skeptical when it comes to UFO's and the handful of claims made by a handful of people. Why is it that any video of these events is always grainy? Why were the only believable stories in that documentary the ones that had the studio supplied reproduced videos playing in the background? How can a HUGE alien craft the size of several football fields do a flyby in Phoenix AZ and only a handful of people see it? Why is it that of the hundreds of thousands of flights that happen every day, there are only a relative few reports from pilots of UFO sightings? Why, and perhaps the more important question, how would world governments keep this information under wraps?
Those are just a few of the questions I have. For me it really boils down to numbers and probability. Which is more probable - UFO's exist and despite our best efforts, modern technology, information and our ability to disseminate it, only a miniscule fraction of the earth's past and present population has run into them? OR - The handful of people that have "seen" them (or heaven forbid - been probed by them) are crazy, delusional, or just plain mistaken? For me, it's a pretty quick selection.
This line of reasoning could take you in a whole lot of other directions with respect to the existence of other 'unseen' things - but you've been down that road already. If you want to try going there again, I'm up for it.
I find some of the parallels that are being drawn here (or around a campfire) problematic. the parallel I am talking about is "If you believe in an unseen God, how can you deny an unseen alien"? or derivations of that question. The false criticism and false choice seems to be (to use a secular example) that if I can prove the existance of Santa, how can you deny the existance of the tooth fairy?
ReplyDeleteIn actuality, there is a universe (pun intended) between "proving" the existance of UFO's and "proving" the existance of a Creative Force or God. About the only thing the two arguments have in common is that there is evidence in support of believing that both exist and the weight of that evidence is disputed. That leaves a LOT of ground in between.
Without rehashing something not all of us are eager to get into, there is a long list of reasons and evidence that supports a Divine or Supernatural cause for our existance, not the least of which is the existance and nature of the universe itself. The fact that some will find the long list insufficient does not change the fact that it is by far more substantial than the evidence insupport of alien life, which boils down to 1)its possible and 2) some people think its true based on what they have seen.
Alien existance is fun to speculate on and could very well be true but aliens are not necessaary to explain questions of our origin or the meaning of our lives etc in sense God or No God respond to those questions.
Another unfair and unconvincing question might be, if you believe in aliens, why don't you believe in God?
Dan,
ReplyDeleteAfter deliberating about the motive of your straw man comment, I have to say one thing:
I'm not biting. Your lure is too big and flashy.
I'll wait for another day.
I am not sure what you mean about a straw man comment. I have not unfairly represented the evidence for aliens, simply to make it easier to refute. Unless someone has "personal experience" the only evidence that exists for aliens is that a) alien life is not impossible (I agree with that) and b) many second and third hand accounts, supported by video, of what witnesses purport to be alien activity. (I don’t have a way to gauge that credibility and even if I believe them, there are perhaps other possibilities)
ReplyDeleteIf you want a very basic answer to your question "Do I believe?", I would say I am agnostic, not athiest, on the alien question. Grin.
But as you know, I find the rest of the discussion flowing from UFO talk to be more interesting. i.e the nature of belief, the value of "evidence", what counts as evidence, what issues "things" not addressed directly in the Bible might raise for a believer, why should the possibiltiy of aliens be disconcerting to a believer? Etc. etc. And that is why my comment was more generally about the rest of the conversations that UFO talks have prompted.
Regarding my huge lure (grin), who is baiting whom? There are perhaps a couple dozen people who read and enjoy this blog regularly. Of those only 5 or 6 are likely to comment. You know who they are and they know who you are. Given that, what response, exactly, were you expecting?
This UFO question is one you posed, not I. I am simply responding to your question in light of recent at-the-ranch and other conversations and asking a rhetorical follow-up question of my own.
I am not the one throwing dynamite in the water hoping to catch a fish. . . .so to speak.
shijun 7.16
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